Getting Listed on the 1st page of this search engine and Yahoo
Author:
webmaster
01 6th, 2009 in
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I own several hundred domain names. I am familiar with Overture.com
and this site's sponser section. I will use Overture for an example.
Apparently I can secure one of the first three spots for "domain
for sale" for about $1.25. In April there were about 3,100
searches on that phrase. For the phrase "domain name for sale"
apparently I can secure one of the top three spots for about $2.25 and
there were about 3,700 searches on that term in April. In other words
depending on which of those two phrases I utilized, I could secure one
of the top three positions for $3,875-8,325 per month. If my
understanding is correct (hopefully it is), then it wouldn't really
matter how good my web page was if I chose this route. If I was
willing to ante up the money, I would be on the first page with
one of the top three spots. If I am wrong with this assumption then
please correct my thoughts. It seems that there are about 20 sites
(non-sponser sites) that are listed on the first page of results. How
much money should I expect to spend to develop a simple (no frills)
site that simply lists the domain names I want to sell along with the
price I want to sell them for and then a link they can click on to
accept the price and send an email to me expressing their desire to
buy or an opportunity to make an offer. Secondly, and
much more important, how much should I expect to spend to ensure that
my site is listed on the first page of results. I would like to have
the opportunity to not pay if my site is not listed on the first page
of the major search engines. How much should I expect to pay to
maintain my site in a way that keeps me on the first page of results.
Finally where would I find freelancers that could do this work,
instead of going with some company that will charge an inflated price
unless this is the best way to go. Please include names of
freelancer's if you are able to (if that is against policy then
nevermind) and names of companies if that is the best route. Upon a
satisfactory answer I can then compare your thoughts of costs and
compare to the "guaranteed" way of being listed on the first page. If
I am able to tip, I will add a very fair tip to your response. Ask
around, I am very fair.
Thanks,
JoelHello, Joel,
For rank checking, I'd recommend starting out with an alternative
tool. The Web Rank checker at Bruce Clay offers free (limited) rank
reporting without risking your site's inclusion in Google. You might
also examine the Search Engine Relationship Chart to understand how
search engine indexing is distributed from the two key search engines
(Google and Overture) to others.
Search Engine Relationship Chart
http://www.bruceclay.com/searchenginechart.pdf
Web Rank Checker
http://www.bruceclay.com/web_rank.htm
--larreJoel,
just a comment on Robert's thoughts. In some cases I agree that the
quality of the page is not that important. It really depends on what
area your domain names are in. But in general, I do believe that if
you put up an amateur site and a professionally designed site, the
professional looking site will always out-poll the amateur. For as
little money as you need to get a pretty site, go that way.
ProfJust a caution, Joel...
Google notices when websites use auto-submit and auto-search-ranking
software such as WebPosition Gold, and using them is a really good way
to get your site permanently banned from Google. I don't recommend it.
Submitting and checking ranking manually are a pain, but that's how
you need to do it.
Regards,
aceresearcherHi Joel,
Okay, I've spent several hours looking at your alternatives when it
comes to search engine optimization. First, I'd tend to stay away from
the big, flashy "SEO" companies that you'll find on the web by doing a
search on Google. All of the ones I'm familiar with, and most of the
ones I looked at are going to set you back at least $1,400 initially,
and in the $1,000 a month range and up.
At that kind of pricing, I think you're better of spending that money
on pay-per-click ads. This is especially true for what you're trying
to do.
In my opinion you'll still want to spend some effort in trying to
optimize your website so it appears higher in the search rankings of
your keywords. Since the big firms aren't a viable option, your
choices are to do it yourself or to get a small freelancer to do it
for you. Here are your specific alternatives, as I see it:
HTML JOCKEYS
Anyone who designs your page should be able to do some of the basic
optimization for you, if you specifically ask. Tell them to include
all of the metatags, alt tags, etc. They'll still need your input of
course. Depending on the keywords, you may be able to register the
domain and get a good ranking. You just have to do it and see.
FREELANCE OPTIMIZERS
There are hundreds of people who freelance website optimization
services out of their home. They may work for ad agencies, web
developers, or individual companies. Their success rate is very
dependent on how popular your desired keyword is. It may also be
dependent on how good they are. SEO is a very difficult business and
you can fail one time and succeed the next. No telling. It's been
difficult finding anyone in this category within the scope of this
question. However I did find a couple of "freelancers" on
www.elance.com that are worth a look. However since it's the weekend I
wasn't able to call them and get specific prices.
MGPDirect
www.mgpdirect.com
This is actually a direct marketing agency, but they have extensive
experience in SEO and they have several good reviews. You might want
to give them a call and discuss your specific needs.
Professional Solutions, Inc.
http://www.psisolutions.com/
This company focuses more on marketing and optimization in particular.
I like their offering mix, and they also come recommended. I might
give them a call first and see what comes of it.
I had a few more comments on your particular goal of selling domain
names. I won't go into whether or not this is likely to make you a lot
of money. One, you haven't asked, and two, I'm assuming you've heard
all of the negatives and wish to move forward. However if you want me
to spout forth, I'd be more than happy to! :)
First, if I were looking to buy a particular domain name I'd have a
very specific idea of what I want. The first thing I'd do is type in
the name I want and see if a site comes up, telling me that that name
is taken. Next, I'd go to:
Network Solutions
http://www.netsol.com/whois
and see if I could find a similar name. I'd look at related names,
those with extra extensions (like XXonline.com), or added components
(xxco.com, xxinc.com, shopxx.com, etc.). Next I'd look in the industry
I'm looking for. Maybe I'd do a search on my desired industry looking
for ideas. Next I'd go to one of the "consolidators", those websites
that will list websites for sale, or list recently expired domain
names that have just become available. In light of this typical
process, you might want to look at the following options:
1. Buy a domain name related to the industry in which your domain
names are located. If you have a number of names in the golf field,
for example, buy a domain name such as golfdomains.com. Build a page
for just those related names and then optimize and register with the
major engines. If you're lucky, you'll get some highly targeted people
looking for your specific domain names. Do this for each group of
names you have.
2. List your names with www.greatdomains.com, if you haven't already,
as well as others of their ilk. I assume you've already done this.
3. If you choose to put all the domains on one page, be sure your
keywords and keyword phrases include one each of the areas,
industries, or interests reflected in your domain names. In above
example, include the phrase "golf domains" in your page copy and in
your keyword metatags.
I hope I've helped you in a small way, Joel. I'd be happy to go back
to work to refine the answer, or add details. If you would just give
me some written feedback by clicking on "request clarification" and
I'll be happy to do some more work. Thanks for the question!Joel,
Just to clarify, WebPosition Gold 2 is not auto-submit
orauto-search-ranking software and is extremely search engine
friendly. Check their website out for details,and if you would like
give them a call to discuss.
Automatic submission is notrecommended and as I discussed in my
answer, you should do this manually, or use a professional.
WebPosition does allow you to do this safely, but I do not use this
feature.
The strength of WebPosition - as I mentioned in my answer - is that it
provides you updated data on the statistical rankings of the top
results of each major search engine. It will tell you how to manually
re-make your web page to match the number 1 to 10 spots. Search
engines are all about algorithms. They weight different elements. For
example, a strong consideration at Google is that your keyword is part
of your domain name. WebPosition does an excellent job of telling you
about each ofthese important elements for each search engine, so that
you can then go in and manually alter your page and then manually
resubmit.
I can tell you with 100% confidence that WebPosition does a fantastic
job for me and my clients. I have never ever had one of my clients
"blocked" and we have had great success in getting clients in the top
10 positions. It has nothing to do with automatic anything. It
actually takes a lot of hard labor hours or it's really a waste of
money to use WebPosition. So be sure to research your information
before."Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check
rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate
our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products
such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries
to Google."
://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.htmlJoel,
Wow. There's a lot of meat in this question and a lot of ground to
cover. I am in the "optimization" business so I should have some good
insights into your question It may take me a bit to cover all of the
material, so I might post a partial answer, and then finish up a bit
later. You've asked a lot of questions! So let me try to take them one
by one.
First, let me make a couple of comments that may clarify the situation
for you and explain how the industry works. As you may know, the
market for domain names has taken a decidedly sharp turn southward for
many reasons. Of course the dot.com failures had something to do with
it, but there are a multitude of other reasons as well. Not knowing
about your particular domain names, I won't say more. But if you'd
like clarification on this point, please ask.
Okay, let me explain how Overture, Google, and other pay-per-click
services work. Yes, you bid on what you want to pay to have your web
page appear either in ads down the side (Google) or at the top of the
regular listings (Overture). However, just having your pay-per-click
listing appear under a keyword, has nothing to do with how many clicks
you're going to get. In your example, if your keyword phrase "domain
name for sale" gets 3100 searches one month, you will have that many
ad exposures. However, of these 3100 views, you may only get 20 or 30
"clicks". Of course this number may be 1,000 but that is highly
unlikely. Some will click on someone else's ad, some will scroll down
to the regular listings, and some will not click anything at all. Much
depends on how well your write your introductory copy - how effective
it is. I'd suggest having some help with this if you're not
experienced in writing advertising or promotional copy. So, this key
word may only cost you a couple of hundred dollars a month. And of
course, you'd only have that many click-throughs for the month.
Next, you say that "...then it wouldn't really matter how good my web
page was if I chose this route. If I was willing to ante up the money,
I would be on the first page with one of the top three spots." Yes,
but as I state above, you really can't expect an incredibly large
number of click-throughs even if you're in the number position. As a
matter of fact, there is some research that shows that the number 2 or
3 spot has more click-throughs than the number one spot! Now, on to
the quality of the webpage. Let's say that someone has clicked to your
page and two other pay-per-click pages browsing for what he wants. He
is going to investigate further only those pages that meet the
following criteria:
* Instills a sense of professionalism and confidence
* Appears to have the information they are looking for
* Is easy to navigate
* Is well written
You really must have a well-designed, functional, professional website
if you want to have any hope of anyone actually sticking around to see
what you have and eventually making a purchase. Your competition is
just too tough to take the cheap or easy path. Even in the number one
spot, you may have a lot of hits, but people quickly hit their back
button and move on to the number two add. Today's browser has been
spoiled by expensively designed, professional sites. And now that's
what they expect. If your site looks amateurish, they'll consider
you're an amateur too and move on.
Your next comment is "How much money should I expect to spend to
develop a simple (no frills) site that simply lists the domain names I
want to sell along with the price I want to sell them for and then a
link they can click on to
accept the price and send an email to me expressing their desire to
buy or an opportunity to make an offer." This is a hard question, but
I've got a few ideas. Prices are all over the board. For a one page
site, you could get an HTML jockey to put together a page for $100 or
so. You could get a professional design firm in most major American
cities to do it for $500 or so. Remember that HTML is not the same as
design. Just because someone knows how to design a webpage, doesn't
mean they know how to make it well designed. Asking an HTML guy to
design your webpage is like asking the typesetter to design your
magazine. Use a designer, or you'll look like an amateur. But I
suggest that you go to:
Elance
http://www.elance.com
Elance is a large group of freelance professionals from all over the
world. You can get designers, web developers, search engine
optimizers, programmers, and more. You can also see samples of their
work before you accept. Tell them what you want, and different firms
will bid on your business. I'll bet you could get someone to put a one
page site of your domain names together for you for less than $100.
One note: you'll likely be working with a designer in India, the
Pacific Basin, or elsewhere in the world. If this bothers you, think
twice. But you can look at the work before paying for all of it, and
you should be pretty safe using Elance. You can use this for all of
your other needs as well.
Okay, your next question is: "how much should I expect to spend to
ensure that
my site is listed on the first page of results. I would like to have
the opportunity to not pay if my site is not listed on the first page
of the major search engines." This is really a toughy. First, there
are a lot of scams out there that charge exhorbitant fees and provide
questionable results. Let me tell you how all of the "guarantees"
work. They will guarantee that, for example, your page will appear Xs
times in the top 20 positions of one of the top search engines. They
will ask you to pick a number of keywords or phrases, and may charge
you for each. The problem is that they will "help" you pick a phrase
where there is not a lot competition. Then they will certainly get you
listed. Unfortunately, everone wants to be listed on Google or Yahoo.
And they will not guarantee that. They'll get you onto one of the
lesser known - and lesser used - search engines that THEY call the top
search engines.
However, these companies do fulfill a valuable service. First, it
takes a lot of man-hours to correctly optimize a page. Here's what
they'll do:
* They might create a separate homepage for each major search engine,
designed and optimized for that particular engines' algorithms.
* They'll register and re-register as needed to try to get you higher
on the engines.
* They'll rewrite the HTML code to include such things as alt tags for
graphics, keyword and description metatages, keyword frequency in the
text, and other statistical averages that exemplify the pages in the
top positions of that engine.
* They'll bill you - a lot!
Expect to pay several thousand up front, and then a smaller amount
monthly from then on. It does require re-registering on a monthly
basis, and there is some labor involved as search engines tend to
emphasize newer registrations.
However, there is an alternative if you want to do the work yourself.
Get:
WebPosition Gold 2
http://www.webposition.com
This is the software we use, and it is used by a majority of the other
companies that try to get you high on the search engines. The main
advantage is that the software is continually updated (you have to
subscribe) and they will tell you what the statistical averages are
for the pages that appear in the top positions in particular search
engines. For example it might tell you that, based on the pages that
do well on Google, you need to have your phrase "domain names for
sale" appear between 2 and 3 times in your text. It will also tell you
that your domain name needs to be based on this phrase, and it will
provide dozens of things that will make your site do better on the
search engines.
This will take a lot of time on your part, but if you do make it to
the top of one or two popular engines, you can get a lot of hits.
But I'll assume you really don't want to do all that work yourself.
Let me take, with your permission, 24 hours to investigate your paid
alternatives. I can't recommend myself obviously, and frankly I'd like
to find out more about how good my competition is anyway! So I'll get
back to you sometime tomorrow after I spend time researching
companies, seeing how good they do, and finding out who I might
recommend.
Thanks for your question! I'll get back to you shortly!Hi Joel,
Just some thoughts...
1) The Overture fee is for click-throughs, not displays. From memory
being #1 results in about a 50% click-through rate - so you can halve
your cost estimates. From experience Google Adwords is better and
FindWhat is cheaper.
2) I would presume that most folk searching for "domain name for sale"
are actually after a registrar. I don't think pay-per-click is
necessarily the answer. As a serious webmaster, who is always on the
look-out for the opportunity to acquire a good domain name, I
periodically visit the sites that act as middlemen. Not only do they
have a large databases of domain names, they can also protect me from
being ripped off.
3) What are the odds of a visitor to your page of domain names
actually wanting one of the names you have? For example, if you were
selling usedmobilephones.com, it would only be of use to someone who
was in that industry.
4) I wouldn't care what the page looked like, and I think you could
take "no-frills" to the extreme. Just a text file with domain names,
prices and contact details would be fine, and wouldn't lose you any
potential customers. Someone could whip that up in minutes.
5) From the amount you are spending trying to sell the domain names, I
presume the asking prices are quite high. It is quite possible that
your perception of their worth is not accurate. There has a been a lot
of misinformation regarding the value of domain names, based on a few,
well-publicised, high dollar sales a few years ago.Thanks for the comment. Your comment about click-througs, not displays
is an example of why I should have waited until tomorrow (after a good
night's sleep) to post the question. I was aware of that fact and
neglected to take that into account when posting my question. Actually
if you were to type in "domain names for sale" or "domain for sale" on
this site or Yahoo most of the sites on the first page are websites
reselling domain names rather than just a registry site. I can
understand your thought that I might have an exaggerated expectation
of value for my domain names because of what I have seen in the
marketplace of other's asking prices for their mediocre names. I had
Greatdomains.com appraise probably 30 of my domain names and received
appraisals of around $170,000. I appreciate your comments and insight.
JoelIf I arrived at a plain text website, and it listed a domain name I
wanted, at a fair price, I would pursue it.
For me it would be the same as seeing a farm I desired, that had a
cardboard sign hanging from the fence saying:
"Farm fer Sale - No Reel Estate Gents"
For me that would be more trustworthy than dealing with a real estate
agent.#If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.# |
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