AA and BA tie up to be announced on Jan 7
Author:
jack
01 6th, 2009 in
xn--9ou.com
edit
The airlines will have anti trust immunity.
Apparently Sept 11 and close bond between Bush and Blair has sealed the deal.
This will be great news assuming no last minute problems, finally able to acrue miles LAX to LHR . Will it be revenue sharing type? I hope it means we can upgrade like DL and AF
BA and AA plan to operate as one airline on 9 transatlantic routes.
Financially and operationally, that means that it won't make a difference to AA whether you want to fly AA business or BA business class since the deal calls for AA to share revenue with BA on all 9 routes.
Frankly, I don't know what is going to happen at gateways where they have no plans to codeshare under the current agreement. Theoretically, they are obligated to continue to compete in markets where they have no right to codeshare. I anticipate, however, that they will provide the same frequent flyer benefits across the system, codeshare or not. So, we should be able to earn and redeem miles on all BA transatlantic flights and vice-versa for BA FF members.
It has also occurred to me that in an effort to give their common passengers a sense that they are operating as one airline, BA and AA will probably introduce a common-branded business class product. Whether that will mean BA pods in AA business class, we will have to wait and see. But, the fact that they will be sharing revenue almost demands that they do something like this.
As for the non-incumbent carriers, open skies or not, Heathrow is going to be a tough place to do business if you are not part of oneworld or the Star Alliance. The open-skies agreement between the US and the UK will promise the world. But, so did the US and Japan agreement. In reality, non-incumbent US carriers will get unlimited rights, but no more than 2 daily flights each to LHR.
And, frankly, that is the way it should be. AA bought its LHR flights from TWA for hundreds of millions of dollars. Heathrow is BA's home airport. If the others want to get as big, they will simply have to acquire the assets in order to compete. At least, now they can.
I just hope they get an upgrade agreement going, since I think it's a big hole in the OW partnership.
d
AA has been unable to crack the transatlantic market against the European carriers; as in my previous post, in any market that they go head to head with a European carrier they have something like 30% of the total market capacity, with the sole exception of DFW-LHR due to their local strength in DFW.
The DFW flights (both AA and BA) go to Gatwick.
I've been waiting for this for a very long time. So when can we start using miles on the Concorde?
For example, AA only operates one daily flt on MIA/LHR and it is always packed. BA operate two flights on the same route, also pretty busy. Who do they compete with on that route ? Umm...VS(w. CO codeshare) and that is it....
So, as the BA and AA flights are busy, can't imagine them cutting flights, so that now gives us AA flyers the choice of 3 flights rather than one.....but will the fares go up....hmm
YES!!!!! As another West Coaster - this is great news - and will be excellent for both airlines. BA and AA both offer very good products from the west coast - however with AA's cutbacks to Europe - BA is a welcome back up!
If only the VIPOW's could be used on both! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Are you sure that this is a plus? If AA and BA join forces from LAX/SFO to LHR they might also combine some of their flights (and cancel some others, thereby reducing the number of daily RTs). Same thing happened with UA/LH on IAD-Germany and DEN-Germany.
But you are right it will be great to earn and retrieve miles on both AA/BA transatlantic. I am flying Jan6 LHR-LAX, I guess no AA miles, yet. Any word on when the deal will become effective?
Greg
As another poster pointed out the West Coast flights on BA leave late afternoon or early evening rather than early morning as they with AA making a connection.
------------------
The world is a book, and for those who do not travel, read only a page.
-Saint Augustine
Wow... are you really basing your support of the alliance on the possibility of upgrades?
No, sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. I want choice: right now from the West Coast my only relistic choices are Star Alliance (UA/LH), Wings (NW/KL), and SkyTeam (DL/AF) all of which are highly integrated and allow cross-benefits such as upgrades, but neither of which are my favorite due to service issues (just completed my first trip to Europe on LH -- utterly awful). Unless AA/BA are allowed to match UA/LH, NW/KL, and DL/AF including their cross-airline benefits, then they're not competitive and I lose as my choice is restricted.
Of course paid AA J folks may prefer to upgrade to AA F (10000 miles each way) rather than take BA J -- I would have to think pretty carefully about this.
Why would you want to waste 10K miles?? The BA J product is better in terms of seats (if you get the beds), service, etc. then AA's F product. It's a no-brainer for me: I'll be on BA from JFK-LHR every time I fly J!
US Justice Dept. opposes BA/AA deal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55724-2001Dec17.html
it's only a recommendation. the transportation department gets sole decision making power.
Will BA get my premium service? You bet! Why would I fly paolithicly staffed barely-reclining AA "bad business" class when there are sleepers on BA?
I second the thanks to Stam4Nick for reminding all of us about it!
it's only a recommendation. the transportation department gets sole decision making power.
I would think of it as less of a recommendation and more as a signal. It may be a signal to negotiate. It may be a signal for BA and AA to drop it. It may be part of the negotiation on an open sky agreement.
It is much harder to connect through London back to Dallas (or Pittsburgh or Houston, etc...) directly because of the few number of cities that have flights that arrive at Gatwick before 8:30 am in order to make the connection.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55724-2001Dec17.html
Are you sure that this is a plus? If AA and BA join forces from LAX/SFO to LHR they might also combine some of their flights (and cancel some others, thereby reducing the number of daily RTs)
There is only one transatlantic AA flight from anywhere in the West Coast to anywhere in Europe: LAX-LHR. And if that becomes BA metal, as long as they allow AA elites to upgrade (like with the LH/UA alliance), then who cares (actually, onboard comfort service improves in all classes save for Y due to MRTC).
From SFO the difference will be huge: right now you have to connect in ORD/DFW/JFK/BOS, and travel to many destinations (like, oh, Amsterdam, Milano, Munich, Geneva, Dusseldorf, Nice etc) would require two connections and two different airlines. These markets (and many more) will become one-connection markets within the alliance.
AA can't get much traffic with two conections and two different airlines: 80-90% of the traffic between two markets flies direct, and of the remaining 10-20% most of it will have only one connection (source: AA-BA filing).
There is only one transatlantic AA flight from anywhere in the West Coast to anywhere in Europe: LAX-LHR. And if that becomes BA metal, as long as they allow AA elites to upgrade (like with the LH/UA alliance), then who cares (actually, onboard comfort service improves in all classes save for Y due to MRTC).
Wow... are you really basing your support of the alliance on the possibility of upgrades? nevermind that these alliances tend to decrease competition by chasing the non-allied carriers out of the market. and when the others are driven out or reduced to bit player levels, prices go up! geez, look at any fortress hub in the US! if you think that in 5 yrs, LHR, CDG, AMS, and FRA won't look and price like DEN, CVG, CLT, and PIT, then look again. selling out for the possibility of upgrades... you'll be paying for 'em, i guarantee....
But nonetheless intuition certainly suggests that AA is in this respect the loser here. So what are we missing (that has AA liking this deal)?
AA has been unable to crack the transatlantic market against the European carriers; as in my previous post, in any market that they go head to head with a European carrier they have something like 30% of the total market capacity, with the sole exception of DFW-LHR due to their local strength in DFW. Most of their attempts in expanding over there have been followed by a retrenchment: ARN, MIL, GVA, NCE, MUC, Lyon, etc.
This deal allows them to cancel additional marginally performing european routes, concentrate assets on the interhub services (DFW/ORD/MIA/STL - LHR) as well as the east coast gateways (BOS/JFK/EWR - LHR), and leverage its strength in its domestic network by feeding the joint BA/AA transatlantic services.
I point out that we may not have heard the last from Virgin's Richard Branson (or his solicitors)whose aircraft carry the "AA/BA No Way" signs.
http://www.capitolconnect.com/americanairlines-britishairways/
http://www.american-britishairways.com/
and register to send letters to your senators and representatives and Secretary Mineta.
I think that with the influx of elites on this board it will make a significant difference.
I did not know if some had found that site, but it is really cool.
Full article at http://www.thisismoney.com/20011209/nm41561.html . The server is a bit shaky, so here's the text (bold mine):
BA clinches its American tie-up
Graeme Beaton, Mail on Sunday 9 December 2001
BRITISH Airways chief executive Rod Eddington is poised to announce a crucial tie-up with American Airlines on transatlantic routes on 7 January.
The deal, which BA believes will transform its prospects on key routes between the UK and America, has been secured after the personal intervention of Tony Blair.
The Prime Minister's strong backing for President Bush's war on terrorism gave added impetus to the agreement, which the airlines have been trying to reach for five years.
BA, whose passenger business fell nearly 18% last month, plans to share nine key transatlantic routes with American Airlines. The carriers already work together and claim the new deal will mean more frequent flights and a better service.
An announcement in the New Year that the US Transportation Department will exempt the two airlines from US anti-monopoly laws will coincide with statements from Washington and London that an 'open skies' agreement has been reached, say sources.
Open skies means new operators will be able to fly between Britain and America. That should mean a greater choice of flights and, possibly, lower fares.
January 7 has been earmarked as a likely date for the joint announcement, but officials admit that the Transportation Department may need more time to examine a bulky submission from Virgin Atlantic and US airlines, including Northwest and Continental.
A British aviation official said: 'We expect the Department to approve the application for anti-trust exemption and we expect an open skies agreement to be reached by early January. These developments will be announced simultaneously.'
Experts said the US had reversed its decision of five years ago - when the alliance first sought anti-trust immunity - because of shifts in the pattern of world aviation.
Jon Ash, managing director of the Global Aviation Associates consultancy in Washington, said: 'They were able to show that expansion of the alliance would not upset the balance among carriers. Also, Prime Minister Blair helped by asking President Bush in person that the deal be done.'
How many years ago did BA and AA start talking?
I point out that we may not have heard the last from Virgin's Richard Branson (or his solicitors)whose aircraft carry the "AA/BA No Way" signs.
I'm sure Richard will make a teary-eyed appearance at some senate hearing or other.
But the story in the paper said that concurrent to the AA/BA announcement will be an open skies announcement, by means of which bribery slots from london to the hubs of DL/NW/CO could be made available. VS will be left friendless in this case.
hillrider suggests that AA will become a feeder airline for BA and retrench to mostly operating domestic flights. ... This would be an interesting development. If so, this will eliminate the value of VIPOWs and thereby a big chunk of being EXP.
A really good point -- I have a whole bunch of soon-to-expire VIPOWs, and even still a VIP2!!!, that I didn't get a chance to use this year (hopefully in January/February) because I ended up on other carriers for overseas flights...and I'm at ORD. I can only imagine those folks at LAX, BOS, or other major AA cities with minor trans-con service.
Let's hope for a blended service model.
If only the VIPOW's could be used on both! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
------------------
Askworldtraveler, EXP,4 million AA miles+++Hilton Gold (thanks to EXP)
Let us make sure this goes through
I'm not so sure that this is all good, BA have never been keen on non J/F px (crap service in cattle & no air miles except full fare).
I have a number of concerns:
1, BA will take the premium class busisness
2, AA will only give miles on full fare tickets (at least for UK based members)
3, Ticket prices will increase due to less competition.
------------------
Nick Thompson
hillrider suggests that AA will become a feeder airline for BA and retrench to mostly operating domestic flights. [...] If so, this will eliminate the value of VIPOWs and thereby a big chunk of being EXP.
However, they can follow the UA/LH model and make the upgrades valid on both airlines. That way they mainiain competitiveness with the Star Alliance and do not dilute the benefit. Without this, you'll gradually see more and more frequent transatlantic pax migrating over to Star.
[This message has been edited by hillrider (edited 12-10-2001).]
Let us make sure this goes through an go to
http://www.capitolconnect.com/americanairlines-britishairways/
http://www.american-britishairways.com/
and register to send letters to your senators and representatives and Secretary Mineta.
Thanks for the reminder. Even if you've already written, please do so again -- it's a new month, and your new message will be added to the "since 12/1" counter. This is just a click away...
This would be an interesting development. If so, this will eliminate the value of VIPOWs and thereby a big chunk of being EXP.
The truth will be known in a year or so when we emerge from our silly phase of our 9/11 recovery. Will AA bring back SEA-NRT; SJC-CDG; SJC-TPE; MXP, etc... and expand with HKG or will they conecede what little remains?
#If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.# |
